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I pose a question with this thought. Let's discuss freedom. Sort by:
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mikecgillman
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Posted on Tue, May 04, 2010 20:00

I say we do not have true freedom on the basis that there are repercussions to our “basic rights and liberties”. For example: I have the freedom to choose whatever religion I want and believe in it whole-heartedly. I can go to mass, church, meetings, powwows, or what ever I want and be with people that believe the same as me. Now if my religion says that I must punch you in the face every time you mention your religion to me, because in my belief yours is false, there are repercussions to my actions. You would have the right to call the cops. I could be put in jail for assault for example. Even though I was only practicing my religious beliefs, using my “freedom of religion”. So with this we are free as long as we understand that there are/can/will be repercussions to our actions. But with that being said does that mean we have no true freedom? Would not true freedom be without reproductions? Then if that is true, freedom could only exist in a “repercussions-less” society, a state of complete chaos. So, I ask you, is total chaos total freedom?

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We rock at dawn on the front line like a bolt right out of the blue! The sky's alight with the guitar bite, heads will roll and rock tonight!! For those about to rock, we salute you!!! \m/ ~____~ \m/

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mikecgillman
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Posted on Mon, May 10, 2010 12:04

Quoting AmuseMe

WTF?? I am not even going to attempt to have an intelligent conversation with you when you are obviously too busy thinking up your REPLY'S to have an actual debate that makes sense. Nothing of this post actually makes sense. ??? I can't be the only one seeing this??


Wow... Ok, seriously, please just stop. YOU ARE taking this WAY TO SERIOUSLY. Chill, it's just the internet, it means nothing.


We rock at dawn on the front line like a bolt right out of the blue! The sky's alight with the guitar bite, heads will roll and rock tonight!! For those about to rock, we salute you!!! \m/ ~____~ \m/

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AmuseMe
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Posted on Sun, May 09, 2010 19:09

Quoting mikecgillman

Wow that a great statement 'The rules of nature, be it human or otherwise, won't allow it.' I never looked at it like that. but I do happen to personally believe in Karma and it loves to keep things balanced in the universe so I totally get what your saying. lol Awesome response! lol :-p


WTF?? I am not even going to attempt to have an intelligent conversation with you when you are obviously too busy thinking up your REPLY'S to have an actual debate that makes sense. Nothing of this post actually makes sense. ??? I can't be the only one seeing this??


In your rocking-chair, by your window dreaming, shall you long, alone. In your rocking-chair, by your window, shall you dream such happiness as you may never feel. –Theodore Dreiser

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mikecgillman
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Posted on Sat, May 08, 2010 23:40

Quoting sinlen

For one, freedom is a relative and not an absolute concept in that it is always compared to the freedom or lack thereof for others, and in that it will always be a contextual and evershifting concept. Secondly, with freedoms come responsibilities. We could claim the right to the freedom to do whatever we are capable of, and some people do this. It would be difficult to argue that claiming the right to all that is possible is in any way conducive to justice. If it were so injustice would be impossible, and it would not be an issue. This is clearly not the case. It is commonly claimed that choice is necessary for freedom, and this is to some extent true, but only within limits. Are we then free to choose equally not to be free? Are we free to choose not to respect the freedoms, rights, and responsibilities of others? Clearly we can’t justly claim boundless freedom of choice, and we should constrain our right to choice to the point that they do not infringe upon the freedoms or rights of others, either though action or inaction, and that this responsibility extends beyond the obvious to the consequences of all which we actively or tacitly support. When you talk about “true freedom” think carefully before you invoke the concept and attendant issues. As for chaos...that’s another notion altogether...and one that is invariably invoked in its simplest form.


Awesome point.


We rock at dawn on the front line like a bolt right out of the blue! The sky's alight with the guitar bite, heads will roll and rock tonight!! For those about to rock, we salute you!!! \m/ ~____~ \m/

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sinlen
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Posted on Fri, May 07, 2010 19:35

For one, freedom is a relative and not an absolute concept in that it is always compared to the freedom or lack thereof for others, and in that it will always be a contextual and evershifting concept. Secondly, with freedoms come responsibilities. We could claim the right to the freedom to do whatever we are capable of, and some people do this. It would be difficult to argue that claiming the right to all that is possible is in any way conducive to justice. If it were so injustice would be impossible, and it would not be an issue. This is clearly not the case. It is commonly claimed that choice is necessary for freedom, and this is to some extent true, but only within limits. Are we then free to choose equally not to be free? Are we free to choose not to respect the freedoms, rights, and responsibilities of others? Clearly we can’t justly claim boundless freedom of choice, and we should constrain our right to choice to the point that they do not infringe upon the freedoms or rights of others, either though action or inaction, and that this responsibility extends beyond the obvious to the consequences of all which we actively or tacitly support. When you talk about “true freedom” think carefully before you invoke the concept and attendant issues. As for chaos...that’s another notion altogether...and one that is invariably invoked in its simplest form.

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mikecgillman
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Posted on Fri, May 07, 2010 15:25

Quoting AmuseMe

Dude, I did read the entire post, and yet again today I've re-read it. I would advise you that you be more clear when posting something of such a nature that could be misconstrued by your readers. I see that I am not the only one that thought along the terrorism lines, and for you to take MY reply so personally is telling. I didn't say I THOUGHT you CONDONE terrorism, why don't you go back are read MY entire post? And just a thought: Even if chaos were day to day norm would not mean terrorism wouldn't exist. That's just an ignorant statement. Terrorism as a norm is still terrorism. And I do not presume that ANYONE would find my reply upsetting. I am not the one with the suggestions.


Dudette, Really? Whats the title of my post? 'I pose a question with this thought. Let's discuss freedom.' it is not a statement. So you obviously didn't read that. And didn't read my replay very well where I said 'Some people could/would be extremely upset by your statement. I, HOWEVER, AM NOT...' so yeah your taking this WAY outta line. Back away from the interwebs... take a deep breath... and chill. ^__^ <-Chill face


We rock at dawn on the front line like a bolt right out of the blue! The sky's alight with the guitar bite, heads will roll and rock tonight!! For those about to rock, we salute you!!! \m/ ~____~ \m/

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AmuseMe
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Posted on Fri, May 07, 2010 06:30

Quoting mikecgillman

How can what I suggest be terrorism if it was the whole of everything. If we were born in to chaos then that would be the norm world wide. and if it was the norm there could be no 'terrorism' because that would be what day to day existence would be. And I am NOT suggesting anything of the sort. I purposed a question for discussion. I was not making a statement in any way. please read the entire post before you say someone is suggesting anything including something as awful as terrorism. Some people could/would be extremely upset by your statement. I, however, am not but you should really watch what you reply with so as to not offend anyone. thanks. oh and I have not read the book but have seen the movie 'Lord of the Flies' and found it very boring a predictable although I do see your point in your comparison. =-)


Dude, I did read the entire post, and yet again today I've re-read it. I would advise you that you be more clear when posting something of such a nature that could be misconstrued by your readers. I see that I am not the only one that thought along the terrorism lines, and for you to take MY reply so personally is telling. I didn't say I THOUGHT you CONDONE terrorism, why don't you go back are read MY entire post? And just a thought: Even if chaos were day to day norm would not mean terrorism wouldn't exist. That's just an ignorant statement. Terrorism as a norm is still terrorism. And I do not presume that ANYONE would find my reply upsetting. I am not the one with the suggestions.


In your rocking-chair, by your window dreaming, shall you long, alone. In your rocking-chair, by your window, shall you dream such happiness as you may never feel. –Theodore Dreiser

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mikecgillman
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Posted on Thu, May 06, 2010 23:33

Quoting AmuseMe

What you are suggesting is terrorism. Freedom does not imply the right to harm another person for any reason. I should be free to know that I can have my own beliefs without threat of harm from someone else. Chaos can not be freedom for that very reason. Have you ever read Lord of the Flies? If not, I strongly suggest it.


How can what I suggest be terrorism if it was the whole of everything. If we were born in to chaos then that would be the norm world wide. and if it was the norm there could be no 'terrorism' because that would be what day to day existence would be. And I am NOT suggesting anything of the sort. I purposed a question for discussion. I was not making a statement in any way. please read the entire post before you say someone is suggesting anything including something as awful as terrorism. Some people could/would be extremely upset by your statement. I, however, am not but you should really watch what you reply with so as to not offend anyone. thanks. oh and I have not read the book but have seen the movie 'Lord of the Flies' and found it very boring a predictable although I do see your point in your comparison. =-)


We rock at dawn on the front line like a bolt right out of the blue! The sky's alight with the guitar bite, heads will roll and rock tonight!! For those about to rock, we salute you!!! \m/ ~____~ \m/

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mikecgillman
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Posted on Thu, May 06, 2010 23:23

Quoting Babycakes63

Mike, wow...its gettin deep in here! Nah, I hear what you're sayin but no, this is only my two cents, but I believe that no one has total freedom as we would all like to think. There are reprocussions to everything that we do especially with those whom have a conscience. Our own government has the right to say what they want to as long as it doesn't offend anyone else...what a load of crap! I say,"God Bless America" and,"Thank you Father Sky and Mother Earth"...No one can take it away from me...all I ask is that you don't shoot me for saying it. Chaos = Freedom..nah The rules of nature, be it human or otherwise, won't allow it. LOL Elaine


Wow that a great statement 'The rules of nature, be it human or otherwise, won't allow it.' I never looked at it like that. but I do happen to personally believe in Karma and it loves to keep things balanced in the universe so I totally get what your saying. lol Awesome response! lol :-p


We rock at dawn on the front line like a bolt right out of the blue! The sky's alight with the guitar bite, heads will roll and rock tonight!! For those about to rock, we salute you!!! \m/ ~____~ \m/

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butterbll
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Posted on Thu, May 06, 2010 21:29

Mike ,Hate to say but, Relegious Fredoms has a limit what you propose would lead to Anarchy. Total Chaos and Lawlessness Is the Final state of what you suggest. If one was to follow the Golden Rule: To treat others the same way you would like to be treated .There can be Zealots on both sides of any issue. However even the universe has laws that must be obeyed.If any group of people has any chance of surviving it has to have Laws. However the ,Preists, Eelders tribal leaders bear the responsability to carry out and enforce them .The trick is to balance it out.


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Posted on Wed, May 05, 2010 11:23

Mike, interesting question, and when you put it like that I would have to say that "true freedom" does not exist. As we have it now, we have the freedom to practice our beliefs as long as they do not cause harm to others. Yes that does put some restrictions on our "true freedom", but it is for the greater good. If we did not have this in place, then it would be perfectly acceptable for terrorist in our country to do as their religion/beliefs tell them to and destroy us all. A large part of our "true freedom" is being able to say that we do not need to fear being hurt by others because even if we are unfortunate enough to be hurt, those who hurt us will (or at least will try to be) punished. If we had the true freedom of no repercussions and lived in total chaos, then we would not have the freedom to truely feel safe. This is why I would say "true freedom" isn't possible, and frankly, i'm very happy with the "limited freedom" we are blessed to have.


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AmuseMe
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Posted on Wed, May 05, 2010 06:11

What you are suggesting is terrorism. Freedom does not imply the right to harm another person for any reason. I should be free to know that I can have my own beliefs without threat of harm from someone else. Chaos can not be freedom for that very reason. Have you ever read Lord of the Flies? If not, I strongly suggest it.


In your rocking-chair, by your window dreaming, shall you long, alone. In your rocking-chair, by your window, shall you dream such happiness as you may never feel. –Theodore Dreiser

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Babycakes63
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Posted on Wed, May 05, 2010 03:17

Mike, wow...its gettin deep in here! Nah, I hear what you're sayin but no, this is only my two cents, but I believe that no one has total freedom as we would all like to think. There are reprocussions to everything that we do especially with those whom have a conscience. Our own government has the right to say what they want to as long as it doesn't offend anyone else...what a load of crap! I say,"God Bless America" and,"Thank you Father Sky and Mother Earth"...No one can take it away from me...all I ask is that you don't shoot me for saying it. Chaos = Freedom..nah The rules of nature, be it human or otherwise, won't allow it. LOL Elaine


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