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The Difference Between Truth And Reality? Sort by:
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ozredhead62
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Posted on Mon, Sep 14, 2009 18:33

This blog is about a comment that Azureblue posted on another one of my blogs that I feel deserves to have its own place for discussion. I do believe that what we percieve to be real is our reality and our truth. If we decide that the day is wonderful and we are feeling great, well it is. No one else can shake that unless we let them. If we have been hurt in love and feel that all relationshiops or men/women are bad, well that is true to us. This becomes our reality, and so becomes our Truth. I have seen many people lost and stuck in their own world of truth and reality and it is not until they choose to change how they see things can they change. I have a girl friend who I love dearly, and to her all realtionships are just too much work, not worth the bother. Yet she also in a way would like to have a man in her life. Every time we discuss this and look at ways to get her out and meeting people she reverts back to her thinking, and pulls out to its all too hard. This is her world, her truth and reality. We all have our own truth and reality that we create from our viewpoints, expieriences and decisions. How good my life is .... is only due to what I have created within the framework of my mind and what I believe. Just my 50cents worth ... to coin Nat's phrase :) ************************** Azureblue wrote: Hi oz, I have been reading what some of the great minds in history have to say about reality. Plato said the following: Plato on Truth and Reality And isn't it a bad thing to be deceived about the truth, and a good thing to know what the truth is? For I assume that by knowing the truth you mean knowing things as they really are. (Plato, 380BC) The philosopher is in love with truth, that is, not with the changing world of sensation, which is the object of opinion, but with the unchanging reality which is the object of knowledge. (Plato, 380BC) Truthfulness. He will never willingly tolerate an untruth, but will hate it as much as he loves truth... And is there anything more closely connected with wisdom than truth? (Plato, 380BC) Then may we not fairly plead in reply that our true lover of knowledge naturally strives for truth, and is not content with common opinion, but soars with undimmed and unwearied passion till he grasps the essential nature of things with the mental faculty fitted to do so, that is, with the faculty which is akin to reality, and which approaches and unites with it, and begets intelligence and truth as children, and is only released from travail when it has thus reached knowledge and true life and satisfaction? (Plato, 380BC) What is at issue is the conversion of the mind from the twilight of error to the truth, that climb up into the real world which we shall call true philosophy. (Plato, 380BC) The object of knowledge is what exists and its function to know about reality. (Plato, 380BC) And those whose hearts are fixed on Reality itself deserve the title of Philosophers. (Plato, 380BC) When the mind's eye rests on objects illuminated by truth and reality, it understands and comprehends them, and functions intelligently; but when it turns to the twilight world of change and decay, it can only form opinions, its vision is confused and its beliefs shifting, and it seems to lack intelligence. (Plato, 380BC) 'But surely "blind" is just how you would describe men who have no true knowledge of reality, and no clear standard in their mind to refer to, as a painter refers to his model, and which they can study closely before they start laying down rules about what is fair or right or good where they are needed, or maintaining, as Guardians, any rules that already exist.' 'Yes, blind is just about what they are' (Plato, 380BC) One trait in the philosopher's character we can assume is his love of the knowledge that reveals eternal reality, the realm unaffected by change and decay. He is in love with the whole of that reality, and will not willingly be deprived even of the most insignificant fragment of it - just like the lovers and men of ambition we described earlier on. (Plato, 380BC) I have been reading a lot on this subject, in a desire to understand it. I agree with the experts of old and this is kinda what I get from all I've read. Reality is based on the physical and tangible. The universe exist in reality, following laws of physics, a tangible reality. We as humans have opinions. They are opinions, not realities, except perhaps in our minds. Any civilization that in history has went against the age old concepts of reality, ie, truth....has fallen. Opinions will come and go, changing with time and knowledge, but the reality of truth, will continue. Heres another interesting quote from cuurent times. 'Reality cannot be found except in One single source, because of the interconnection of all things with one another'. When we deduce this most Simple Science Theory of Reality we find that there is only one possible solution: Space must be the substance which exists and matter is formed from waves in Space. The electron is a spherical standing wave in Space.I.e. While there are many minds and material things, they all exist in one common Space (just look around you and think about it). We can then show that the Wave Structure of Matter is the correct solution as it deduces the fundamentals of Physics & Philosophy perfectly (there are no opinions). I realise that there are a lot of 'crackpot' theories about truth and reality on the Internet, but this solution is the most simple one and it is obvious once known (though it takes time for our minds to adjust to new knowledge). Just food for thought! Smiles--azure ***********************************


Life is only as wonderful as you think it is.

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one2one
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Posted on Sat, Sep 19, 2009 20:16

Here's what I think ... Reality is not fixed or stagnant. It is changeable. We do not live in exactly the same world as people did 150 years ago; it has changed precisely because of what was thought up and created then and at various points in between then and now. Even the physical world does not stay the same. And if you'd like a really interesting, although I admit it's controversial in scientific circles, example of that see Masaru Emoto experiments about the effect of thoughts and words on water crystals. It's cool ... very mind opening. Truth can in some ways be ascertained, however it is hardly one dimensional but has many layers. While "A" may be true, so is B and maybe C, D and in some cases E. If you're trying to find a constant point, I think you're really talking about facts, not truth or reality. Even that gets tricky because we only know what we already know and don't yet know ... well, all the rest of it. You can't really get down to facts with philosophical arguments, although ancient philosophers would have argued ad nauseam that you can. *rolling eyes* Philosophy is an attempt to discover the nature of something through reasoned arguments. It's similar to science only in that both create theories or hypotheses. In one discipline you might be able to prove them (science), and in the other you really, probably can't prove anything at all (philosophy). No matter how much you want to. I'm not opposed to philosophy, but I tend to favor philosophers who don't get all caught up in the idea that reasoned arguments, in an attempt to discover the nature of the our existence, give one moral superiority. Plato believed it did. So do private Catholic colleges, which is why I had to pay for 16 credits of Theology and Philosophy the last time I was in school. Metaphysical ideas are actually a form of philosophy and equally valid as thought theories. So, it's really a debate about the very same things, using different way of explaining them. Kind of like creation v. evolution theories, and also why I refuse to get into an argument about that one, so don't even try ... lol. Although I'm surprised that someone would lean toward creation theory rather than evolution theory, if I'm understanding your need for tangible proof, Azure. As for truth and reality, I agree that what we think and believe has a very definite effect on our experience of life, what we perceive and what we draw into it. I just don't think it's the only force at work. If I drop pebbles into the pond that is my own world then I have created the ripples that continue to expand from that point. It is the event, the effect, and I am the creator. But I'm not the only one dropping pebbles in the pond. Sometimes people just throw trash in there no matter how many "please don't litter" signs I post. D@mb, that was deep! lol. I hereby claim copyright, as well as intellectual rights and exclusive licensing rights to that whole pebble paragraph ... on second thought, to the whole thing. I should really be getting college credits for this. ;)


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truefriendinme
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Posted on Sat, Sep 19, 2009 00:30

So...who's up for a little Philosophy? Geez, guys. I leave for a while, and you all become so COMPLICATED! :) It's like we tell our patients about pain--"Pain is real to the patient, so pain (reality) is what the patient says it is!" No one can purport to percieve another's reality. --True


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ozredhead62
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Posted on Fri, Sep 18, 2009 05:05

Quoting: Originally posted by Babycakes63

Wow Oz, great insight.? I hope we get signed copies of your book!? Grinningly, Elaine



Again thanks Elaine, of course one hot off the press. xx :) Though might need some tester/volunteers first to see if I have got it right, if anyone is interested?


Life is only as wonderful as you think it is.

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ozredhead62
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Posted on Wed, Sep 16, 2009 18:18

Quoting: Originally posted by azureblue753

Hi you all, lol. Well, I said so much before, there isn't much I left unsaid, lol....on this subject. But, let me see if I can add to the thoughts again. If we perceive something as a realitiy, and we even state it is a reality to us, that does not , in fact, make it a true reality.?If I say there is a positive and negative to everything in the universe, which encompasses everything including our existance, I can say that This is a reality, proven with the laws of physics, tangible. The natural order of things in the universe are not subject to opinions, they continue according to reality. Civilizations through the centuries called this and that their reality.My belief is much simpler to explain?this way.?I believe in a great creator, who?created the universe and set it in motion. Science is now beginning to?lean toward creation theory ?instead of evolution?as we are able to reach out farther into space and our?knowledge is increased. There is a certain order to life, all life. The stars are fixed and the planets, all make their same movements at the correct times. Our earth rotates at a certain speed etc. The moment anything upsets the?natural order of things in ?the universe, disasters take place.?We have discovered for instance that if the planet uranus were not where it is,?our earth would be bombarded to oblivion by meteors. If the sun or moon moved slightly closer or farther from the earth, it would create disasters on our planet and destruction. When the order of things were set in motion, all living things did what the order of nature moved them to do. Inside our bodies, our heart works its pumping functions. If we get arteries clogged,?it can interfere with the 'Natural' function of the heart which can?lead to death from heart attack. These are the pos and neg sides which exist in the natural order of all things. We humans are not robots,?but are very complex. We have both physical and emotional needs in our makeup. We have reasoning, and so can choose our actions according to our desires. We have? the ability as free thinkers to choose from the possitive and negative sides?that exist in this universe that we are? a part of. This is how there are times of peace, and times of war. It is why we have happy marriages and bad marriages. We can try to take things out of the natural order of the universe, which includes you and I , and it will not work as it is meant, as it was designed to, and so it falls apart in time. Reality are those things standing the test of reality, proven with time to continue on in a possitive way not upsetting the balance of nature.?

Remember that freedom is beautiful, but freedom can also be abused. Not everything that feels good is good. Not every free choice is made wisely. Roses have equally beauty and thorns. We also do reap what we sow.

smiles and peace

azure



He Azure thanks for adding more to this blog. You state "Reality are those things standing the test of reality, proven with time to continue on in a possitive way not upsetting the balance of nature.?" I am not sure if I have understood it as you meant it but will comment to as I see it. :) How does one stand the test of reality? Is not reality only what one believe is to be? Can you tell someone that loves cheesecake for eample that it tastes horrible, or a try to tell a smoker that their deadly habit is hurting them. Their reality is real to them, despite how is is judged or percieved by others or by nature. Make sense of the suidcide bomber who know that he will be rewarded in the afterlife? What are his truths and reality? I would think his reality is that one of the "positive side" though I am sure millions of people would not agree. So does the universe create our reality or does our reality create our universe? :)


Life is only as wonderful as you think it is.

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ozredhead62
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Posted on Wed, Sep 16, 2009 17:49

Quoting: Originally posted by butterbll
There is a saying that best Illistrates the complexity of ones "Truth". It goes somehing like this ."One Nations Hero Is a Nothers Monster." The Universally accepted truth is Dependent on what side of point of veiw one is on. Example most Anglo people regard at the time the Little Bighorn battle as a of an American tragedy.Yet many gloss over the many Henious actions by whites that led up to it.Yet as a Native American, It was a time of great joy for many.For the anglo had been Devouring the lands that Native peoples had lived on for many many generations. so wheather some thing is "Good: or "Bad" depends on what point of reference one takes. a nother great example is the work of Alfred Nobel , one of his greatest inventions was Originally used for good to aid in building things and aid in mining. that use most would say was a good one,.Yet Its use had a "Darker Side". It could be used to destroy his invention when placed in a steel container and dropped from an airplane caused much devastation and death. so the truth is dependant on what side of the equation one is on. So is truth more like Schrodingers Cat paradiox? Truely Hidden from our Veiw so it is neither dead or alive?


Interesting thoughts here Buterbll, and perhaps you are right here in a way. Truth is subjective and your version of truth is what is real for you, and there are not other options availabel unless you decide that there could be. Now the paradox of dead or alive does not work in the world of our truths unless we have opened ourselves and allowed that possibility in. If ones believe that it is dead, for that time, in their world, it is. Try to tell someone that thinks they are ugly that this is not true. Though they may hear you they will hit against their own concieved reality and beilieve this and nothing will change it unless they themselves decide to. Viewpoints as you say are everythimg and frame and make your truth and thus your life. Truth is not hidden from view it is our view, would everyone agree on this, no as they have their own viewpoints and truths. I have taught classes where I had for example one lady, who after she lost her husband some nearly 3 years ago felt that there was nothing left to live for, and was emotionally distraught all the time. Within days I watched her transform and expand .... gone was the weeping and distraught woman ... and emerged a bright smiling and optomistic soul. (love that part of my job) What had changed? Well the only thing that had shifted was her viewpoints, how she was looking at things and her "trusths" about what her life was about. In doing that her world changed too. Anyway I think I have rambled enough here already lol What are your thoughts? :)


Life is only as wonderful as you think it is.

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ozredhead62
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Posted on Wed, Sep 16, 2009 17:15

Quoting: Originally posted by Babycakes63

Quotation originally posted by Babycakes63:

I agree with Plato on his opinions,? but his words can be percieved in many different ways.
This is only my opinion and I am really enjoying this banter.? We two can agree to disagree, no??I can concieve the literal meanings of Plato but I can also see that perhaps he had a different view on the "world of change and decay"? For instance they had slaves back then..didn't they?? We have a much more civilized world then when plato was alive and yes, we do have more decay.? So, I'm going to suppose that one might ask if your God is real within those theories of what is real.?

I agree with Oz in that What we percieve to be real is our truth.? No, I was not?trying to be a smart alec?to question if there is a God.? I know that there is a God and to me My God is real.? I just had to get my point accross.? By the way, I thank you Oz for putting this into a new catagory.? Still smiling, Babycakes



Your welcome Babycakes, do like a banter and debate ... but got to say luv you more .... you agree with me .. he he he Hope that more people get on and give us their thoughts. grins


Life is only as wonderful as you think it is.

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butterbll
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Posted on Tue, Sep 15, 2009 08:17

There is a saying that best Illistrates the complexity of ones "Truth". It goes somehing like this ."One Nations Hero Is a Nothers Monster." The Universally accepted truth is Dependent on what side of point of veiw one is on. Example most Anglo people regard at the time the Little Bighorn battle as a of an American tragedy.Yet many gloss over the many Henious actions by whites that led up to it.Yet as a Native American, It was a time of great joy for many.For the anglo had been Devouring the lands that Native peoples had lived on for many many generations. so wheather some thing is "Good: or "Bad" depends on what point of reference one takes. a nother great example is the work of Alfred Nobel , one of his greatest inventions was Originally used for good to aid in building things and aid in mining. that use most would say was a good one,.Yet Its use had a "Darker Side". It could be used to destroy his invention when placed in a steel container and dropped from an airplane caused much devastation and death. so the truth is dependant on what side of the equation one is on. So is truth more like Schrodingers Cat paradiox? Truely Hidden from our Veiw so it is neither dead or alive?


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