I recently had a lengthy discussion wiith my granddaughter about the first great love of my life. I told her about how he use to open doors for me, stand back and let me enter a room before him, pull my chair out from the table etc In other words how respectful and courteous he was to me and other women. She listened intently and then asked the million dollar question"what ever happened to real men?" She explained that the men she knew were so different. Most lacked basic manners, were pretty self centred and more concerned about getting their needs met than considering hers. Older men she observed were now more concerned with growing old and having trophy wives to give the illusion of youth. Her comments stopped me dead in my tracks and I had to really think about her question. The roles of men and women have changed significantly in my lifetime, but it seems to me that we have lost the art of courteous behviour towards each other and I think she is right about us all becoming more ego centric. What does anyone else think???
I recently had a lengthy discussion wiith my granddaughter about the first great love of my life. I told her about how he use to open doors for me, stand back and let me enter a room before him, pull my chair out from the table etc In other words how respectful and courteous he was to me and other women. She listened intently and then asked the million dollar question"what ever happened to real men?" She explained that the men she knew were so different. Most lacked basic manners, were pretty self centred and more concerned about getting their needs met than considering hers. Older men she observed were now more concerned with growing old and having trophy wives to give the illusion of youth. Her comments stopped me dead in my tracks and I had to really think about her question. The roles of men and women have changed significantly in my lifetime, but it seems to me that we have lost the art of courteous behviour towards each other and I think she is right about us all becoming more ego centric. What does anyone else think???
Buttrbll ¿ Read your long reply to my comment.¿ I agree with some and disagree with most... lol ¿Again, I believe it's a simplistic explanation to make women lib. responsible for that.¿ Yeah, yeah, the role of men change, so did the role of women, we adapted... why didn't you.¿ We didn't like our role so we fought to create a new one... It's about time that men work at doing the same.¿ The past won't come back, because now, most family need the woman to work outside.¿ Men are not sole bread winner anymore, but we still do most of the house work.¿ ¿ First femininism and femininity should not be confused.¿ Second in the roman Empire, women were killed if there was more then one per family and were treated like slaves, they had no rights.¿ So what was their excuse.¿ What about countries, right now on this planet, where women's lib hasn't penetrate yet... they see the same lack of courtesy and respect for tradition.
Buttrbll ¿ Read your long reply to my comment.¿ I agree with some and disagree with most... lol ¿Again, I believe it's a simplistic explanation to make women lib. responsible for that.¿ Yeah, yeah, the role of men change, so did the role of women, we adapted... why didn't you.¿ We didn't like our role so we fought to create a new one... It's about time that men work at doing the same.¿ The past won't come back, because now, most family need the woman to work outside.¿ Men are not sole bread winner anymore, but we still do most of the house work.¿ ¿ First femininism and femininity should not be confused.¿ Second in the roman Empire, women were killed if there was more then one per family and were treated like slaves, they had no rights.¿ So what was their excuse.¿ What about countries, right now on this planet, where women's lib hasn't penetrate yet... they see the same lack of courtesy and respect for tradition.
as people age,the possibilty of their knight in shining armor or hot babe¿to¿come charging into their lives becomes more remote.perhaps its better to deal with the reality of the situation and work from there.bill.¿
as people age,the possibilty of their knight in shining armor or hot babe¿to¿come charging into their lives becomes more remote.perhaps its better to deal with the reality of the situation and work from there.bill.¿
Perhaps it is a result of the world becoming smaller geographically and a much larger community.
You speak of the "real men" or often the "knights in shinning armour" (and, of course, butterbll's fair maidens). I believe they existed in a place where the community of people was still small enough that your actions and your deeds had a way of following you. If you were a gentlemen (or a lady), your reputation would proceed you and thus you would put some effort to maintain it.
Now that we've essentially become one big society, where being an anonymous face in the crowd is norm, it becomes easier for people to simply not bother maintaining a good reputation, and people seem more concerned with the immediate payoff. "Why should I give up my seat on the bus? I'll never see that person again, and what do I get out of it?" Some media tend to fuel -- even promote and idolize -- that behavior (as per butterbll's comment about music degrading women).
This, in turn, seems to give rise to growth of cynicism, skepticism, and sarcasm within the rest of society (and that's a lot of "isms"). I remember my first trip into the big city of Toronto (I grew up in a small country town) riding the bus during the busy Christmas season. A seat had freed up in front of me, to which I offered it to a lady who was overburdened with her shopping treasures. She turned a suspicious eye at me and demanded "Why are you sitting in it? What did you do to it?"
I try to maintain some semblance of common courtesy (which, sadly, isn't all that common anymore) in my day-to-day life. In fact, every once and a while when someone else does something nice to me, not only do I thank them, but I sometimes tack on "you sir are a scholar and a gentleman; alas there aren't many of us left." We share a quick laugh as it usually brings a smile.
Mind you, that line doesn't really work if a) they take it as me being a sarcastic smart-ass, or b) they are female.
Perhaps it is a result of the world becoming smaller geographically and a much larger community.
You speak of the "real men" or often the "knights in shinning armour" (and, of course, butterbll's fair maidens). I believe they existed in a place where the community of people was still small enough that your actions and your deeds had a way of following you. If you were a gentlemen (or a lady), your reputation would proceed you and thus you would put some effort to maintain it.
Now that we've essentially become one big society, where being an anonymous face in the crowd is norm, it becomes easier for people to simply not bother maintaining a good reputation, and people seem more concerned with the immediate payoff. "Why should I give up my seat on the bus? I'll never see that person again, and what do I get out of it?" Some media tend to fuel -- even promote and idolize -- that behavior (as per butterbll's comment about music degrading women).
This, in turn, seems to give rise to growth of cynicism, skepticism, and sarcasm within the rest of society (and that's a lot of "isms"). I remember my first trip into the big city of Toronto (I grew up in a small country town) riding the bus during the busy Christmas season. A seat had freed up in front of me, to which I offered it to a lady who was overburdened with her shopping treasures. She turned a suspicious eye at me and demanded "Why are you sitting in it? What did you do to it?"
I try to maintain some semblance of common courtesy (which, sadly, isn't all that common anymore) in my day-to-day life. In fact, every once and a while when someone else does something nice to me, not only do I thank them, but I sometimes tack on "you sir are a scholar and a gentleman; alas there aren't many of us left." We share a quick laugh as it usually brings a smile.
Mind you, that line doesn't really work if a) they take it as me being a sarcastic smart-ass, or b) they are female.
We are busy sharpening our skill to slay the evil Baron's dragons and fighting the evil sherrif of Knottingham so we car rescut the Fair maidens of the world..
Quoting: Originally posted by deva115 Love the analogy butterbill. so how come I don;t meet any knights in shining armour?
Quoting deva115:
Love the analogy butterbill. so how come I don;t meet any knights in shining armour?
We are busy sharpening our skill to slay the evil Baron's dragons and fighting the evil sherrif of Knottingham so we car rescut the Fair maidens of the world..
Petal let me clarafy the statement I made . With the birth of the Womans Liberation movent and socities declining Moral Values. Those roles for a Male of the human species has gotten murky. With women wanting to be treated as equals. Some women will get mad when you hold the door open . Some do not. Now a lot of the male of the Human species will not won't. The reason, because they are afraid they might offend the woman.( and get chewed out). Another reason also A lot of guys don't because the lack of respect shown by society to ALL!! We as a society have gone from being aware of your surroundings , knowing neighbor and caring for their safety,and caring for what happens in the community they live in.TO now not knowing our neighbors ,to being totally isolated in our own protective bubble world , and caring for one's self only at the expense of others. Our culture talks a good game , but I feel Idolizes the wrong role model's you have Rap /Hip hop singers who disrespect women in their songs, Actors who, cheat on, and beat their partners , and polititions who lie, cheat and steal ,or tell you to act a certian way yet do the same things they chastize you fordoing. CEO 's/and board members of companies whoRape,Pillage and PLUNDER a company in to the ground. Those are the role models who are Idolized ,and held up as good role models by a lot of the pop culture . But you rarely hear about the what I Feel are the REAL MEN.The ones who say and do what the say they will. The real men who do the Right thing inspite of it not being the easy way out. The real man who will stop to help a stranger in need and ask Nothing in return. The real man who teaches his children to respect others regardless of race, creed , colour or gender,or physcall limitations. The man who teaches the value of Honesty,and Hard work to those in his care. The real man who does not actively seek Fame, yet when thrust in to harms way Acts to solve the problem, not standing there like a blubbering idiot, or whining about what needs to be done, or complaining what was done .The problem we now face I feel is simmiular to the Decline of Rome. The social and moral Fabric has degraded . DisRespect for others , looking down on others that not are at your same Socio- ecconomic level, Blind faith in goverment goverments role in one's life. Greed,and Apathy towards others is the norm , not the exception. The REAL MEN Are clinging to their wifes,and families ,their Bibles ,and guns . Not Whininging how bad the ecconomic times are . He goes out day in and out and does what has to be done to live Free, and cause no harm to others. He wants to live in peace,and harmony with his neighbors and to be left alone from interferance from those who seek to do him and his family harm.
Petal let me clarafy the statement I made . With the birth of the Womans Liberation movent and socities declining Moral Values. Those roles for a Male of the human species has gotten murky. With women wanting to be treated as equals. Some women will get mad when you hold the door open . Some do not. Now a lot of the male of the Human species will not won't. The reason, because they are afraid they might offend the woman.( and get chewed out). Another reason also A lot of guys don't because the lack of respect shown by society to ALL!! We as a society have gone from being aware of your surroundings , knowing neighbor and caring for their safety,and caring for what happens in the community they live in.TO now not knowing our neighbors ,to being totally isolated in our own protective bubble world , and caring for one's self only at the expense of others. Our culture talks a good game , but I feel Idolizes the wrong role model's you have Rap /Hip hop singers who disrespect women in their songs, Actors who, cheat on, and beat their partners , and polititions who lie, cheat and steal ,or tell you to act a certian way yet do the same things they chastize you fordoing. CEO 's/and board members of companies whoRape,Pillage and PLUNDER a company in to the ground. Those are the role models who are Idolized ,and held up as good role models by a lot of the pop culture . But you rarely hear about the what I Feel are the REAL MEN.The ones who say and do what the say they will. The real men who do the Right thing inspite of it not being the easy way out. The real man who will stop to help a stranger in need and ask Nothing in return. The real man who teaches his children to respect others regardless of race, creed , colour or gender,or physcall limitations. The man who teaches the value of Honesty,and Hard work to those in his care. The real man who does not actively seek Fame, yet when thrust in to harms way Acts to solve the problem, not standing there like a blubbering idiot, or whining about what needs to be done, or complaining what was done .The problem we now face I feel is simmiular to the Decline of Rome. The social and moral Fabric has degraded . DisRespect for others , looking down on others that not are at your same Socio- ecconomic level, Blind faith in goverment goverments role in one's life. Greed,and Apathy towards others is the norm , not the exception. The REAL MEN Are clinging to their wifes,and families ,their Bibles ,and guns . Not Whininging how bad the ecconomic times are . He goes out day in and out and does what has to be done to live Free, and cause no harm to others. He wants to live in peace,and harmony with his neighbors and to be left alone from interferance from those who seek to do him and his family harm.
I think honestly some men are confused and women may be to blame. "should I hold the door for her or is she an equal lib woman" "will she get upset if I pull out her chair for her or upset if I don't". How are men to know what to do these days? We can't blame it all on them.
Granted some are downright rude and chauvanistic but there are plenty out there who are true gentlemen like our Butter. We just have to give them a chance to show it!
Just my 2cents
I think honestly some men are confused and women may be to blame. "should I hold the door for her or is she an equal lib woman" "will she get upset if I pull out her chair for her or upset if I don't". How are men to know what to do these days? We can't blame it all on them.
Granted some are downright rude and chauvanistic but there are plenty out there who are true gentlemen like our Butter. We just have to give them a chance to show it!
You have never ruffled my feathers before but you did it this time... with overtime. LOL
To say Women's lib is responsible is a simplistic answer and I know you to be better then that.
I'm a liberated woman. I want to be as an equal in a professional environment. Want to share responsabilities at home. I work outside as much as a man does,so why should I do all the work at home. This is the basis of women's lib. Equality. Quebec is a society where equality is institutionalized. We have equality pay laws. In divorces, government regulates and everything accumulated during the union is split in two equal parts. So I'm a lib woman from a lib society.
I also greatly appreciate having attentions that shows consideration of me as a woman from a man. Being liberated doesn't mean looking for a doormat I can control... quite the contrary.
I believe the lack of good manner is a direct result of the 60's, rebellion agains authority and all the precepts of the previous years. Good manners were considered studgy, something against freedom of speech and old fashion. The baby was thrown with the water and we're left with a society in which younger people don't have the basic rules of civilized interaction.
That's my liberated opinion.
Butterbll
You have never ruffled my feathers before but you did it this time... with overtime. LOL
To say Women's lib is responsible is a simplistic answer and I know you to be better then that.
I'm a liberated woman. I want to be as an equal in a professional environment. Want to share responsabilities at home. I work outside as much as a man does,so why should I do all the work at home. This is the basis of women's lib. Equality. Quebec is a society where equality is institutionalized. We have equality pay laws. In divorces, government regulates and everything accumulated during the union is split in two equal parts. So I'm a lib woman from a lib society.
I also greatly appreciate having attentions that shows consideration of me as a woman from a man. Being liberated doesn't mean looking for a doormat I can control... quite the contrary.
I believe the lack of good manner is a direct result of the 60's, rebellion agains authority and all the precepts of the previous years. Good manners were considered studgy, something against freedom of speech and old fashion. The baby was thrown with the water and we're left with a society in which younger people don't have the basic rules of civilized interaction.
I believe it's not limited to men... I feel like we've lost the most elementary courtesy. Thank yous and pleases are things of the past, people feel no obligation to act in a civil manner. When was the last time you saw a younger person give their seat to an elder or a pregnant women for example. Rudeness seems to be institutionalized. Just go to any store... carts in the middle of the alley, 2, 3 people chatting not caring if they block the passage to everyone else. Client is not always right anymore, rudeness towards clients from casheer and from clients to casheer. Go to any restaurant and look at people's table manner... We seem to have lost the knowledge of how to use and hold a knife or a fork.
There is a let down of all manners, take swearing... we hear it more today then we ever did 15 or 20 years ago... and what good has swearing brought to our sense of identity. Not much if you ask me. It's everywhere and there's very little recognition of the fact that we live in communities and should follow basic rules to show respect and civility towards one another.
I believe it's not limited to men... I feel like we've lost the most elementary courtesy. Thank yous and pleases are things of the past, people feel no obligation to act in a civil manner. When was the last time you saw a younger person give their seat to an elder or a pregnant women for example. Rudeness seems to be institutionalized. Just go to any store... carts in the middle of the alley, 2, 3 people chatting not caring if they block the passage to everyone else. Client is not always right anymore, rudeness towards clients from casheer and from clients to casheer. Go to any restaurant and look at people's table manner... We seem to have lost the knowledge of how to use and hold a knife or a fork.
There is a let down of all manners, take swearing... we hear it more today then we ever did 15 or 20 years ago... and what good has swearing brought to our sense of identity. Not much if you ask me. It's everywhere and there's very little recognition of the fact that we live in communities and should follow basic rules to show respect and civility towards one another.
There are still men out there that know how to treat women with the respect that they deserve. I have been told many times that I don't need to open a door or pull out a chair for a woman. But I still do. I was raised that way. Most men don't know that doing the little things, in the long run will help the relationship. Most of the people in the world today are self centered. It is a real shame that it has come to this. I wish that someday things will change, but I don't think it will. People don't even say Hi to one another anymore. When I say hi to a stranger, they either look at me like I am crazy or just act like I'm not there.
There are still men out there that know how to treat women with the respect that they deserve. I have been told many times that I don't need to open a door or pull out a chair for a woman. But I still do. I was raised that way. Most men don't know that doing the little things, in the long run will help the relationship. Most of the people in the world today are self centered. It is a real shame that it has come to this. I wish that someday things will change, but I don't think it will. People don't even say Hi to one another anymore. When I say hi to a stranger, they either look at me like I am crazy or just act like I'm not there.
You ask the Question ...What ever happened to real men? Some de-evolved in the Weak Cadny Azz species of the Metro Sexual man. Others have pushed to the fringes of society by the so called "Civalized Society" because of the militant Womans Liberation Movement.Others of the species have been hunted down and destroyed like wild animals because they were not easily "House Broken".Those few of us still left who know how to treat others with "Old Fashioned Decency" decency have been laying low. We bide our time waiting society to come to its senses.Any one got a can of metal polish ? my suit of armor is gettin a bit rusty.Well I'll go my horse needs a rub down. Till we meet again fair maiden. I bid you good day and safe journeys.
You ask the Question ...What ever happened to real men? Some de-evolved in the Weak Cadny Azz species of the Metro Sexual man. Others have pushed to the fringes of society by the so called "Civalized Society" because of the militant Womans Liberation Movement.Others of the species have been hunted down and destroyed like wild animals because they were not easily "House Broken".Those few of us still left who know how to treat others with "Old Fashioned Decency" decency have been laying low. We bide our time waiting society to come to its senses.Any one got a can of metal polish ? my suit of armor is gettin a bit rusty.Well I'll go my horse needs a rub down. Till we meet again fair maiden. I bid you good day and safe journeys.
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